| QUOTE |
| Unless you're going for an anabolic insulin kick, what kinds of carbs have you used for energy during training? |
Cheerios
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| Beyond Muscle Forums > Diet & Nutrition > Best slow release carbs? |
| Posted by: trouble Feb 10 2004, 12:09 AM |
| How do you manage your carb intake? If you're not lifting explosively, most of your energy is derived from short chain fatty acids (SCFA) metabolism, once muscle and liver glycogen stores are depleted. One way to get extended energy is to make it thru a long workout is to store glycogen and make these SCFA from food sources (carbs). Unless you're going for an anabolic insulin kick, what kinds of carbs have you used for energy during training? |
| Posted by: William Slade Feb 10 2004, 08:12 AM |
| I've had good success with slow-cooked oatmeal and brown rice. |
| Posted by: Christopher Janusz Feb 10 2004, 09:26 AM |
| For me, 1/2 cup of oats before cooking, and a protein shake (no carb) w/water about an hour to 1.5 hours before training seems to work well. ~~SC~~ www.gotswole.com |
| Posted by: Loki Feb 10 2004, 09:29 AM | ||||
| As an extension to Will's comment, if you're cutting & using starches (time frame immediately surrounding your workout(s) notwithstanding), go with Oatmeal & Sweet Potatos (Will's suggestion of Brown Rice isn't bad either-- although I find it does a rather poor job of filling me up when I'm dieting heavily). Both are tried & true, nutritious, low-II, & low-GI bodybuilding staples. They're good stuff...
While this is true, I think you're seriously misunderstanding it's ramifications. For starters weight lifting (or strength training if you prefer) is an anaerobic, glucose [re: glycogen/ATP]-reliant form of exercise that has absolutely no reliance on the SCFA during the eccentric/concentric portion of the lift-- that's simply not how your body fuels your muscles. The SCFA only really comes into play during bouts of long aerobic cardio, not weight-lifting, where-- even with quite a bit of effort-- it is rather difficult (and not to mention outright detrimental) to completely deplete skeletal muscle glycogen stores...
Just a few off the top of my head: - Maltodextrin - Dextrose - Powerade Powder - Gatorade Powder - Bagged Sugar Cereals - Sweet Tarts/Runts/Other Dextrose Candies - Pretzels & Other Fat-Free Snack Foods Honestly, as long as you can train comfortably, you can ingest damn-near anything as a carb-source during your workout... |
| Posted by: str8flexed Feb 10 2004, 09:58 AM |
| well done Loki |
| Posted by: Sypher Feb 10 2004, 10:28 AM | ||
Cheerios |
| Posted by: Ted Fletcher Feb 10 2004, 10:58 AM | ||
I use a similar approach in that I consume a chicken breast and a large bag of 97% fat free microwave popcorn (52g carbs, 12g fiber) 1.5 hours prior to training. During training is an inworkout shake consisting of whey+dextrose+creatine - Fletch "Riding the insulin wave" |
| Posted by: William Slade Feb 10 2004, 05:12 PM | ||||
I've been doing the 'in-workout' shake thing for a while now and I freaking love it. |
| Posted by: trouble Feb 10 2004, 06:18 PM |
| Thanks for the input on slow-release carbs. I found a very good web site that describes contractile muscle energetics. It particular, it describes short-term (a few minutes) and long-term (still less than a hour) utilization of energy sources via a combination of aerobic and anaerobic reactions. http://www.physiol.arizona.edu/PSIO201/fall02/notes/lec26.pdf Course notes, Intro Physiology, SH Wright. I also found web site that provides a chart showing a direct comparison of a few categories of muscle exertion and the energetics (and time scale) involved. http://faculty.washington.edu/kepeter/118/notes/ms-perform.htm Again, class notes, very nicely prepared, for a Human Phys course (Karen Petersen, Dept of Biology Univ WA). You're right Loki - for a normal person, weight lifting exertion energetics is mainly driven by creatine phosphokinase activity and anaerobic glycolysis, with a lesser amount of energy coming from fatty acid. Why I brought up this topic... If you're insulin resistant (I am, that's one of the reasons that I started a strength training program), glucose transport and uptake is impaired. Creatine utilization may also be impaired. That means that a higher than typical supply of muscle energy for sustained effort has to come from fatty acid oxidation in mitrochondia. Recent research in IR has hinted that fatty acid transport and utilization from lipid pools may be impaired in IR patients. Citation: Insulin can enhance GLUT4 gene expression in 3T3-F442A cells and this effect is mimicked by vanadate but counteracted by cAMP and high glucose--potential implications for insulin resistance. Yu ZW, Buren J, Enerback S, Nilsson E, Samuelsson L, Eriksson JW. Biochim Biophys Acta. 2001 Feb 14;1535(2):174-85 The second citation below also suggests that central hyperinsulinemia predominates during the first hour of exercise, followed by peripheral tissue insulin insensitivity caused by exercise-induced release of fatty acids. Citations: Effects of Free Fatty Acids (FFA) on Glucose Metabolism: Significance for Insulin Resistance and Type 2 Diabetes. Boden G. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi Suppression of endogenous glucose production by mild hyperinsulinemia during exercise is determined predominantly by portal venous insulin. Camacho RC, Pencek RR, Lacy DB, James FD, Wasserman DH. Diabetes. 2004 Feb;53(2):285-93. Simple starches (high glycemic carbs) are known to induce higher serum insulin and glucose concentrations and to keep them elevated longer in both normal and insulin insensitive individuals when compared to similar carb loads of complex (slow hydrolyzing or slow release) starches. Citation: Postprandial carbohydrate metabolism in healthy subjects and those with type 2 diabetes fed starches with slow and rapid hydrolysis rates determined in vitro. Seal CJ, Daly ME, Thomas LC, Bal W, Birkett AM, Jeffcoat R, Mathers JC. Br J Nutr. 2003 Nov;90(5):853-64. This IR leads to a real problem during training: I can't do regular carbs as a primary source of energy during exercise, am mildly tolerant of slow release carbs (mostly veggies, flaxseed), and probably don't have a very good secondary source of energy from fatty acid oxidation. Along with a reduced carb diet (slow-release carbs only), I have been using alpha-lipoic acid and taurine to try to normalize muscle energetics (assuming that I am producing adequate amounts of insulin. I also use vanadyl sulfate and Cr GTF to restore insulin sensitivity. It't like walking a very narrow fence - too much carb reduction coupled with increased insulin sensitivity can lead to hypoglycemia, and converse insulin insensitivity from some carbs also leads to impaired glucose utilization. How best to supplement carbs while trying to manage insulin and fatty acid pools? |
| Posted by: Arbitro Feb 10 2004, 10:21 PM |
| trouble- What was it that led you to your conclusion that you are insulin resistant? Did you have blood work done? Also, I'm curious to know about your use of high-GI carbs around training. Did you see excessive fat gain using this approach, or...?? I suspect I am also IR to some degree, and curious about how to verify (short of blood work). TIA. |
| Posted by: Stay Puft Feb 10 2004, 10:44 PM | ||
Same with me, although I am not a sipper per say. I tend to pound at about 50mins into my workout which is no more than 90mins. |