Hello, all. Newbie here. Just wondering, I hear different opinions on the amount of protein per seving to take. Some say that taking more than 20g is a waste, some don't. I usually take two scoops of whey for a total of about 40g per serving twice a day. Would it be better to spread out the grams during the day, or is 40 too much or not enough? Thanks!

i'm 5-8"
200lbs

There are so many factors involved, it is near impossible to determine. Muscle mass, digestive trac health, fiber content, protein source, the list goes on. I will say though, you can definitely absorb more than 20 grams. I myself usually shoot for 50-75 grams per meal.

I get 20 g most meals, but in some meals 50-70 g. If you are taking large amounts, take slow release protein (like milk protein, casein) and less will be wasted.

How about the least amount per meal, what should you always try to shoot for no matter what?

What I do is, take my bodyweight, subtract the g of protein I am getting from shakes, then divide that amount by four (for the other four meals), and then just make sure I get that much each meal.

For bodybuilders, IMO 1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight is minimum. So a 200 lb guy needs 300g of protein a day. Divide that by your number of meals.

Studies on resistance training individuals shows no increase in protein synthesis beyond 1.8 g/kg (or .8 g/lb) of protein daily, and usually no benefit beyond 1.4 g/kg... of course, the subjects weren't on steroids, and probably assume only high quality/complete protein sources, but I still tend to think protein needs are overestimated.

I would think the average sedentary person would need this much...........

I'd say your basal protein intake should be more like 60% of that.

Stop reading FLEX or anything associated with joe weider

WOW! thanks for the info guys! So, if i understand it right, I'll shoot for 50g per servings, for a total of about 300g spread out throughout the day. On a seperate subject, I just received my s1+ today, and I'm sooooo psyched!! Awesome site!
Once again, thank you all!

lol, my flex sub just went out, looks like i'll actually have to go bye toilet paper now.

As far as protein intake is concern I make a point to get ~40% of my daily calories via protein, which works out to about 200-220g/day for my 158lbs. That is more of a ceiling value, as most days i would say I skirt 200g.

The key thing with protein is that you hit your daily quota. Less important is how/when you reach it.

If your goal is 300g of protein/day, 150g in the morning & 150g in the evening (purely in terms of providing aminos for growth-- I am not speaking in terms of satiety) is just as effective as 6x50g feedings.

In fact, short-term protein shortages, followed by a larger, protein 'slizzam' (if you will ), has actually been demonstrated in studies to illicit a greater anabolic tissue-turnover response (1,2). A third study, has found that-- in terms of overall nitrogen retention levels-- it's total protein that matters; timing has very little-- if any-- effect on actual net leucine balance (3).

Honestly, it's not like people first started getting ripped in the 20th Century, and-- last time I checked-- nobody was slamming Whey/Casein shakes every four hours in 4th Century A.D..

Get your protein. Don't worry about the timing; it's quantity that matters, baby.


Refs:

1. Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Gachon P, Genest M, Bayle G, Grizard J, Arnal M, Antoine JM, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein turnover modifications induced by the protein feeding pattern still persist after the end of the diets. American Journal of Physiology Endocrinology and Metabolism. 2000 May;278(5):E902-9.

2. Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999 Jun;69(6):1202-8.

3. 2: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. Journal of Nutrition. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.

Yeah, most people only need 50-60 g, the average athlete maybe twice as much, and the average bodybuilder probably 3-4 times as much

Agreed. I find it a tad amusing most people have higher protein intakes while bulking than while cutting. I suppose there are reasons, but I disagree with them.

Agreed. If you're bulking, you should never be getting more than 30% of your caloric intake from protein. Cutting is a different story, but-- given the innumerable amounts of anabolic benefits one receives from a.) insulin (the most indirectly-anabolic natural hormone the body has) & b.) prostaglandins snd cytokines, coupled with the fact that both glucose AND FAs are protein-sparing (in any sort of diet), means that a bulking diet should never be structured around protein, but rather, the other two macronutrients.

Interesting. Very Interesting.

Your opinion is that 50/30/20 C/P/F is an ideal ratio for a bulk?
I seem to get the feeling that one would be more likely to gain fat on such a diet, when contasted with a 40-40-20, but I must be wrong. Its all about energy, so it comparing one to the other, overall calories will determine fat gain, it must.

Carbohydrate timing would be even more critical, it would seem to me, in this type of diet(50-30-20). That is alot of carbs to eat in the morning, and specifically in the workout window.

What are others current bulking ratios, or any additional thoughts on this?

Actually, I think a 50/25/25 (if not 60/20/20) is about the best macronutrient ratio for a reasonable bulking diet, but, whatever...


In terms of weight gain, it's all about compromises & timing, not to mention a host of other factors like natural insulin sensitivity, thyroid levels, fiber-ratios/% and hormonal balance. Pure calories also matters quite a bit too, as does the form(s) of training one is involved in.

Most are wary of higher-CHO diets for the wrong reasons. What you interpret as a risk of 'fat gain' is kind of bullshit; it's the risk that with chronically elevated insulin levels, controlling appetite becomes more of an issue, and over-consuming calories in such a scenario isn't. See, if you're bulking with a 800 calorie surplus, eating a 50/30/20, and just have terribly sucky genetics, you'll probably gain fat, in such a case, I might point an individual towards something more IsoCaloric, but-- first-- I'd recommend changes to a.) total daily calories ingested & b.) training. I mean, a few sprints every morning & a couple modifications to intensity & complexity of lifts can go a long way in terms of enhancing nutrient partitioning, as can centering carb-consumption in/around workouts.

Plus, you also have to distinguish between 'max gains' and 'good (re: lean) gains' because, as I've said countless times, you can't have both without some serious drug use. It all brings us back to compromise, crafty dieting/training techniques, and a healthy dose of willpower...

The majority of the diets that I see carefully planned out are indeed extremely high in protein, and contain much fewer carbohydrates than you would imply are optimal. As a result I have shaped my diet accordinly, and intrestingly enough I have always felt like, "I should be growing faster!". I would be safe to assume I have average muscle building genes, maybe average is slightly modest. I would attribute everything I have (not much at that) to hard work, and dedication.

You are suggesting that muscle gains would be inhanced by sprints, or some form of interval running? I read a post of your on avant about your feeling on cardio and you converted my to a sprinter(along with the insight of others).

What exactly were you considering?


Thanks in advance for all your input, it is appreciated by many.