Ok so I have a problem...belly fat mostly plus a little extra here and there...I eat pretty decent, not perfect but not to bad, rarely fast food, lots of chicken, broccoli, oatmeal, etc. I've tried a shit ton of the fad diets and lots of pills and nothing seems to help. So I was talking to Downtown about it and he suggested a Test / Tren cycle. First off let me say that I am 24, I'm in the military so I do lots of cardio (3+ miles at least 3 times a week) and I try to hit the gym (or the home gym and dumbells) on the days I don't run and sometimes when I do. I am 5'4" and about 180lbs. I have never messed around with anything like this before mainly because I didn't really know about it, but I have been doing a little research and will be doing a lot more before I would start the cycle. I'm hoping to get down to like 160 or at least weight 180 and be cut. According to the Marine Corps's body fat method I'm like 18% (neck - waist then find the coefficient on a chart...I know highly inaccurate) Here is what I look like now:

Front


Side


If I were to do the cycle it would look like this:

week 1-4- Test prop 75mgs EOD
week 4-10- Test prop 100mgs EOD
week 4-10- Tren Ace 50mgs EOD

PCT would be
week 11-14- Nolva 60/40/40/20 or Toremifen 120/90/90/60
week 11-16- Stoked
week 13-16- Inhibit E

I had also throwing some Lean Xtreme in toward the end of PCT like week 13-16 to keep cortisol levels down.

I just want to know what you guys think, if I should add anything, take anything out, try something totally different? My diet is cleaning up right now and I'm gonna throw in some more protein. I'm also gonna start hitting the gym more here in the next week or so once I get done doing stupid shit for work and actually have time. Thanks in advance.

Wow, I have a hard time beliveing that you eat good, I mean you say you run 3+ miles eod eat chicken and broc, you say you don't eat out or eat junk food very often, hmmm. I have a huge feeling that you are eating way to much sugar, cut it out completely.

First thing I want to ask is if you fall out of those 3 mile runs?

dude thats disgusting.

obviously your not telling the full truth if you look like that. if you really ate as clean as you say, you would look wayyyyyyy better than that, no offense.
i give you an A+ for having the courage to post those pics up tho.
heres my advice: you are not ready for gear.
gear is not magic and will not make you lose blub and get bigger at the same time.
clean up your diet FOR REAL and focus on getting leaner first. be consistent and you will see results. once u get lean then clean bulk and make as much natty gains as possible before even thinking about the gears.

No I don't fall out, I don't run REAL fast but I don't fall out (probably about a 23 - 24 min 3 mile at the moment)... and I said I don't eat GREAT...but I eat decent...I know my diet is jacked up at the moment but it is about to change and your right I'm going to cut sugar out pretty much completely. I know my diet will help immensely but even when I was in Iraq and working out everyday and running EOD and not eating very much sugar I looked better but not where I wanted to be I was a little bit leaner but still couldn't get cut.

To learn how to cut
http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=19732

To find out how many calories you need
http://www.geocities.com/arelliotness/harris-elliot.xls

To Find out how many calories you eat
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Index.html

This is what you should eat
http://forums.beyondmuscle.com/?showtopic=40589

For a possible form of cardio
http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=1416

TRAINING
http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=20444
http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=26006&hl=growing
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMenu.html
For form
http://www.thetrainingstationinc.com/exercises.html


POST YOUR DIET
HERES MY IDEA FOR YOUR WORKOUT

Back/Bis

Chest/Tris

Shoulders/Legs

All done once a week with at least one day of rest in between:
IE: Monday, Wednesday, Saturday.
On days that are not lifting days, do cardio in the morning!

During your workout days, pick 3 exercises for each muscle, then do three sets of that exercise. Each set should be 10 reps long.

http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic=22827
Make these your staple movements


LOOK AT THESE FOR A GUIDE
http://forums.beyondmuscle.com/?showtopic=15843&st=0
http://forums.beyondmuscle.com/?showtopic=40464&st=0

Awesome stuff there... Like I said I will definitely be cleaning up my diet, what do you guys think about doing an ECA stack then? Or ECY?

I personally know this guy, he eats clean, his diet is very similar to my own, just less. He was in pretty good shape in iraq with me. He is a good runner and keeps up better than most, and calls cadance while doing so and thats not easy to do. he is also strong as hell in the gym. He has tried other methods, diets + cardio, and he has used other stims to help, without much avail. Im going to help him out with very thing, first hes going to lock on his training and diet to the T. Then hes going to go on a cut for a few months till hes solid. Also this cycle isnt going to be any time soon, like i said we are going to get everything to 100% first and im going to be there every step of the way to help him. He was consistent with the gym until we got back, so hes got a few years of training under his belt. But like i said he wanted advice for a future cycle.

dont do gear yet bro. Try your best to get down to at least a 15% bf. You're gonna gain fat on cycle, making it even harder to lose the fat post cycle. Not to mention that gear will raise your Blood pressure and at your size, thats not a good condition.

Tren has fat burning properties but you wont really lose BF % on it. My waist actually grew during my cycle.

Get on a calorie restricted diet, 2500 or so cals, use some ECA, and continue with your cardio at least 3 days a week. Eat clean and light.

the shit I have just read is fuckin retarded.... other than what accent posted.

how do you guys know he doesn't eat clean as fuck? its not possible he got fat and recently started eating clean?

jayv, please explain how he's going to gain fat on cycle. I lost 50lbs on cycle. cals decide that. not you and not gear.

I don't see the point in him doing a cycle tho.

That's exactly what it was...while I was in Iraq I was eating clean and lost weight and looked better than I do now. Then when I got back I fucked it all up and here recently I've started getting back into the clean eating lifestyle. I'm not totally there yet but will be soon. For now I think I'm gonna do an ECA stack, keep eating clean, cardio and hit the gym like I was doing in Iraq, and see where that gets me. The cycle was gonna be for after I get to that point.

Well, i agree a cycle isnt the best route. But neither is HGH, which i have talked him out of. But once again this was an idea for the later future. Hes going to take a different aproach, lean xtreme and napalm, with diet and cardio and see were hes at. I feel for him because i had the same problem but on the other side of the scale. And goodskie is correct, this problem for him has pretty much been just since we got back from deployment.

if he runs that much tren would be a bad idea anyway.

I would suggest maybe using some T3 with his eca stack.

Ohh lord, he we go with his "I lost 50 lbs on test" speech. I think its time i call you out on your so called test cycle.

Water retention and fat gain are a fact when running test. When it aromatizes to estro, you're gonna start gaining unwanted weight. I dont care what you've read in some magazine, I go by what ive experienced with personal results.

And yes of course, cals decide everything. But im sure he plans on eating while on cycle See, Most people who run test actually eat, train hard, and try to increase their compound lifts, gain muscle, etc. unlike yourself.

i suspect You ran bunk test...thats why you didnt make noticable gains. Your pics are testament to what im saying. Im sure others would agree but are too pussy to admit.

your gear was either bunk, or you dont train. besides, Why would You run an aromatizing drug to lose weight? There are so many other options to hold onto muscle. Cheaper options at that.

What you accomplished, any jerkoff could of done without gear. ECY and exercise would of given the same results.

Just admit you got burned. you've been injecting pure cottonseed oil this whole time. congrats.

Seriously....Do you even workout?

its amazing you look the way you do for how dumb you are. I dunno tho, you are old as fuck and short. I'd still think you wouldn't be as weak as you are for how many drugs you've ran tho.

seriously tho stop acting like you know shit. you ask some of the noobiest questions at BN. and id LOVE for you to show me someone that lost the weight I did, in that amount of time and kept their muscle on ECY alone. which by the way doesn't do a thing noob.

do you not realize that all un natural bodybuilders do cutting cycles just to keep muscle. vap and gary are two here at bn. they don't gain muscle while cutting either.

so keep talkin shit to everyone here cause you you look better. just remember that its only because you're old as fuck, short as fuck with with more cycles under your belt than do-rags in your closet.

do you even read or are you purposely trying to be a jacked moron ?

a reasonable calorie deficient w/ tonns of cardio & jus beat the shit out of urself w/ the weights.

ur not that bad look at this fat fucker.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/75264-...sform-pics.html

This guy truly amazed me. He is natural too.

and dont forget it, bitch


seriously, lets just summarize on what you're saying. You're saying people dont gain extra water and fat while on a test cycle?

Goodskie, sweety, if you actually believe that, im gonna have to say you never used it. or you used something you though was test. its ok, we all get burned now and then. placebo effects can occur.

My advice to you, and being that im old as fuck, i have some wisdom and insight here. lol

My advice to you is quit gears. it isnt for you. you look exactly the same after 5 months with a slightly smaller stomach.

again, ECY would of done the exact same thing.

Oh wait i forgot, ECY doesnt work you said. well, i guess test cycles are your only option then.

Seriously goods, less reading the boards, more actual experiences. You cant tell me the sky is green because you read it on the intranets. All i gotta do is look up...and know that what you're saying is false.


good luck with your abuser cycle.

actually I look a whole lot leaner. everyone here knows that. how should I look? should I look bigger after a 15 week cutting cycle? I did more change to my body than you did, but I was mother blubbed so I should have.

if I would have ran just ecy, I would have lost a lot of muscle being that I have a good ten pounds of muscle from a ph cycle.

where did I say test doesn't make people retain water? if you restrict cals on gear you will lose fat. if you eat above maintenance you will gain weight.

I don't know why you tell people they are going to gain fat on cycle. how the fuck do you know? i didnt. vap didnt. pros that are cutting dont.

gear doesn't MAKE you gain or lose anything. food does. gear helps with protein synthesis.

you give shit advice period. if you disagree, tell me how I should look after a 15 week cutter, and explain how I could get there. I bet you can't. and if you say just ecy would make me lose 50 pounds of fat with no muscle loss, then maybe you should apply for a managerial position at GNC cause you'd fit right in

i guess i know why im 19 and decided to leave BN...

Well listen ...

Using gear is using gear , however there are many different types and ester..

protien sysniethis doesnt occur with test...**mainly

test speeds up everything in you productive system...

dbol on the other hand is for protiens.. which is why you often have a "stack"..

I dont know why you both have problems with each other , you both are jacked.. i personally liked your cyp and E cycle javy ... however at the moment AX is sold out so i spent a little more and got me some organon.. best of the best.. but im waiting till the time is right..

Goodskie... personally , ive took test, and ill tell you what , i dont care what the heck you eat.. youll gain wieght if its the real deal i had balkan Enth. and it was golden as i gained 26lbs within 8 weeks. not to shabby... i'd love to see how you lost 50lbs on your cycle tho , do you have it logged ?
was it prop or cyp or sust ?? or E ? diet ... etc ? cardio ... etc ?

to end this all up ... stay away form gear bro, get your diet into order then look into some m-drol ... then go for some test.

that made absolutely zero sense.

so both of you agree that even if you're in a high caloric deficit, you'll gain weight if you're on test?

lmfao

so wait, by that logic, you're saying that pros, lets say trey brewer, is going to gain weight when he cuts. hmmmm last I heard he was 330, so he'll be at least 331 at 5% for his next show. oh wait, he'll be on several other gears and peptides so we'll say 350

good call guys