Ok so I'm about 3 weeks from finishing my first cycle of test E. Good gains about 20lbs. I threw winny in last week and a few days ago I went in for my routine blood work. So I knew that my liver values and my cholesterol would be somewhat out of wack. But I didn't really expect them to be so drastically altered.

My liver enzymes where at 59 and normal is below 40 I think
And my Hdl LDL ratio is horrible

it's a 6.1, I'm basically at triple the risk of a heart attack at 25 right now.

My LDL isn't too high, it's 129, but my HDL levels plummeted, they're at 22 (last time I had it done my HDL was 61)

So I'm pretty worried. I only have 3 weeks left so I'm not to worried about my cholesterol, genetically I have good levels normally so I'm sure they'll bounce back after my cycle. I am however worried about my liver values. I'm a week into the winny and I was planning on running it for 4 weeks, my liver values are already up so I was wondering if you guys thought I should just drop the winny and maybe leave it for another cycle. I'm running Liv 52 and 1000mgs of milk thisle a day. So I thought my liver would be in better shape.

Any input, preferably from someone with experience would be very much appreciated, this is my first cycle and I have to decide by tomorrow morning if I'm going to drop the Winny. Thanks guys.

Hey bro
are you takeing injects of winny or orals? Either way I dont think that your liver enzymes would raise so high for the cycle your on!
How often do you drink? Do you take any otc fat burners? those are other factors that could contribute!YES LIV 52 IS THE BEST..... I am actually about to take oral winny cause its all I can get my hands on. I will be taking 25mg a day with the liv 52.
Any time your a person is "on cycle" their HDL levels drop. Im not a doctor, and dont know why, BUT ALSO TAKE SESAMIN OIL as well.
Keep up the cycle as lomg as your blood pressure is good.
GOOD LUCK

Ok, so I was taking clen and didn't realize that was liver toxic as well. I feel so fning stupid. I'm going to drop the clen, and I think I'm going to lower my winny dose to 25mgs a day, I was taking 50mgs. Or maybe I'll drop the winny alltogether.

dude you liver enzymes are fine bro... their not elevated hardly at all, a couple doses of asprin would put them higher than that

when there 10-15 times the normal range thats when you start to cause irriversible damage

Running anything for yer liver with the orals?? Sylimarin (milk thistle) or Liv52 should be taken when using orals, it won't keep the values normal but ANY help is better than none

I'm taking milk thisle and liv 52

winny is known to fuck up your cholesterol. id like to see your results without the winny. i think your values would be much better without the winny.
btw hows your diet right now? bulking or cutting? cardio? sodium intake? are you on adex or any other AI?

I'm on Test E around 550 mgs per week, 50mgs per day winny (for about a 1.5 weeks now), Adex .5mgs ED.

My diet is still a very lean bulk, I'm getting about 3000 - 4000 Kcal a day from healthy foods such as homemade grilled turkey breasts, some deli meats, peanut butter, almongs, multigrain bread, a boat load of apples, oranges, bananas and grapefruits. So my diet's pretty healthy.

Starting monday I was actually going to switch to a cut for the last few weeks of my cycle by doing cardio and cycling carbs.

Rob should I just drop the winny and save it for my next cycle maybe?

I only have about 2.5 weeks left on and I don't want to f something up just to get a pound or two more of muscle.

i'm sure you're fine man.

i would only use winny at the end of a cutter. i started to use it but wasnt lean enough to really get the benifits so i dropped it after a week. maybe save it til then. it is good with strength tho but isnt gunna buid much mass if you're still bulking

I think I'm just going to drop the winny. It's not worth it. My lipids are already all screwy so I don't think I should put my body through 3 more weeks of something harsh like winny. And you're right I'm prob not lean enough to get good use out of it anyways. I'll save it for a future cycle or try to sell it to a friend.

Also after doing a little more reading, I can also attribute my HDL decline to the arimidex I'm taking.

20 lbs, congrats.

most of your numbers should get back to normal when its over.

my BP is skyhigh but i know it'll resume normalcy when its over and done with.

i wouldnt worry.

Dude, your liver values are fine - they're very slightly elevated above normal, which is what you'd expect. if they go up into the hundreds Id start worring, and if they go up past the 1000 mark id panic. other than thatn no biggie.

Ive seen gammaGT values of over 3000 in a hospital patient (alcohol induced, AAS cant do THAT to you), who went on to make a complete recovery!


As to your cholesterol, Id basically expect it to be sh*tty. If you're on cycle you're going to have the same ratios as a McD eating 300lb lardass. Period. As an athlete, healthy in other regards, this is not as dangerous for you as it would be for a 45 year old 300 lber though, plus its only temporary. Its just one of the things you have to live with if you juice - periods of crappy cholesterol ratios. If it really worries you then run a course of statins, or make a point of doing clean bulkers only (low fat, lots of oats and grapefruit etc etc), although even with a good low cholesterol diet high dose cycles will STILL fk your ratios up.

Provided it isnt coupled with any other indicators (eg high BP) I wouldnt worry at 25. High BP is more of a problem, and if its way high Id really look into better estrogen control and/or an ACE inhibitor while on cycle

Adex has been shown to increase SGOT, SGPT,LDL and cholesterol....if you are worried about your values I'd drop it also...any oral will also increase liver values but they DO come down a few weeks to a month or so after you stop taking them.

My liver panels were high after all my M1T cycles and returned to normal a few months after my cycles were over, personally I wouldn't worry much.

TAC, how about people that never come off? Wouldn't their constant elevated liver values be detrimental to them in the long-term?

most people that stay on take good breaks from orals, and get bloodwork done to make sure they arent fucked.

also they go down to trt man. its like like they're actually full blown ON year round. instead of comming off all together, they come down to trt doses for a certain number of weeks. this way they dont lose the gains that you would doing a pct

THanks for all your input guys. I have 2 injections left to my cycle and 7 days of winny. I decided to see it through mainly due to the fact that I feel great and my liver values weren't that elevated to begin with. Also I feel at ease now knowing that a steep drop in HDL is relatively normal on cycle. I'll post some pics up comparing before and after, a day or two after my last pin.