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Beyond Muscle Forums > Off Topic > i dont like to be negative...


Posted by: Michael218532 May 11 2008, 01:38 AM
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/09/cbo-webb-hagel/

http://www.newsweek.com/id/136321
(this one is especially roids-esque)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/01/mccain-asked-did-you-call_n_99744.html
(how is he going to deal with foreign leaders if he is dropping c-bombs everywhere?)

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/05/john-mccains-up.html

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/38133-mccain-s-spiritual-guide-wants-america-to-destroy-islam
(if these are his friends we are in so much trouble in the middle east)

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/30/94541/7973


...this post is meant to be somewhat sarcastic. i just wanted to point out that every candidate has these stories about them floating around, and most of them dont mean anything when it comes to their qualifications to be president.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 11:20 AM
John McCain called http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I an "agent of intolerance" and rightfully so. To suggest that 9/11 happened because God was punishing the United States for "abortionists, feminists, secularists" etc is absurd and insulting to people with brains in their skulls.

McCain was correct in his original assessment of Falwell, imo at least.

BUT...in order to become the GOP candidate for Prez these days, you've gotta have these evangelical types on your side. Integrity be damned.

user posted image

Guess he's not an "agent of intolerance" when it's campaign time.

Point is, all 3 candidates have a couple shady relationships. It sucks, but it's life. Do you not have any shady associates? What about in your past? I know I do. I wish Obama didn't have the Wright thing hanging over his head and I wish McCain didn't mortgage his integrity in return for support from the far-right.

"Teflon John" however, has gotten pretty much a free ride with the mainstream media. Hell, I haven't even started on Hagee.

Posted by: Kevin43403 May 11 2008, 02:22 PM
I guess whoever you support you are going to believe that the other guys are getting a free ride and your guy is getting pounded by the media. I have heard it from everybody, doesn't matter if you believe in Hillary, Obama, or McCain.

The Dems have destroyed a perfect opportunity though. Thats why the media is concentrating on their faults, they are still attacking each other to see who will become the Dem presidential candidate. The longer this goes on the less credibility Obama has, or Clinton for that matter but she never had any credibility. This presidential race has made me a republican.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 02:38 PM
QUOTE (Kevin43403 @ May 11 2008, 02:22 PM)
I guess whoever you support you are going to believe that the other guys are getting a free ride and your guy is getting pounded by the media. I have heard it from everybody, doesn't matter if you believe in Hillary, Obama, or McCain.

The Dems have destroyed a perfect opportunity though. Thats why the media is concentrating on their faults, they are still attacking each other to see who will become the Dem presidential candidate. The longer this goes on the less credibility Obama has, or Clinton for that matter but she never had any credibility. This presidential race has made me a republican.

That's really weird that THIS race would have made you a Republican, as http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/27/ST2008042702368.html?hpid=topnews seems to be the opposite nationwide, due to the lack of quality candidates the GOP had this cycle.

I don't think the Dems have ruined their chances at all. The ongoing battle between Obama and Clinton has had it's low points for sure, but nothing that either candidate couldn't come back from in a general election against McCain...assuming McCain is still alive in November. I don't see Obama's credibility taking too badly of a hit at all.

Posted by: Kevin43403 May 11 2008, 02:45 PM
I didn't say the Dems couldn't come back from it, but if this race had been over with a while ago then I think the Dems would be the frontrunners to become president. Now, I think it will be a tight race. Its hard to predict right now what will happen in the presidential race because you just don't know what will or could come out about the candidates. I became a republican because I don't want Obama or Clinton in the white house. I don't like everything about McCain but I like him more than the others.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 02:49 PM
QUOTE (Kevin43403 @ May 11 2008, 02:45 PM)
I didn't say the Dems couldn't come back from it, but if this race had been over with a while ago then I think the Dems would be the frontrunners to become president. Now, I think it will be a tight race. Its hard to predict right now what will happen in the presidential race because you just don't know what will or could come out about the candidates. I became a republican because I don't want Obama or Clinton in the white house. I don't like everything about McCain but I like him more than the others.

Fair enough, and I think you're definitely right to an extent. If Obama wrapped up the nomination a month or so ago, he'd have more time to dedicate to the General Election, and would be running much higher in the polls than he is now (currently like +5 points I think) head-to-head vs McCain.

EDIT: The dems are still the frontrunners, as both of them are http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/05/hotlinediageo_p_3.html in head-to-head matchups and the GOP isn't exactly fired up about McCain. For them, I see it almost like the Dems saw it in '04..."this guy's OK, but I just wanna vote AGAINST the other guy"

Regardless though, if Barack wraps this thing up on May 20th in Oregon, he'll enjoy quite a bump in the polls from the convention in Denver. A lot of the Hillary people say they won't vote for him...but they will. He'll get a nice boost in the polls and will be running 10 points ahead of McCain, if not higher.

I think once we get into the nitty gritty time (Aug, Sept, Nov) it will be VERY tight indeed. Gonna be like the last 2 elections probably, another 51/49 type thing. America has proven to be at least 51% retarded though, so who knows how it'll shake out.

Posted by: Will109090 May 11 2008, 04:44 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 11 2008, 02:38 PM)
That's really weird that THIS race would have made you a Republican, as http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/27/ST2008042702368.html?hpid=topnews seems to be the opposite nationwide, due to the lack of quality candidates the GOP had this cycle.

Mitt Romney was a very viable candidate. He has tons of financial background in terms of turning companies completely around and making them perform well again, so in that aspect, he was the best candidate on both sides of the aisle other than Ron Paul. People just couldn't get past his Mormonism.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 05:31 PM
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 11 2008, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 11 2008, 02:38 PM)
That's really weird that THIS race would have made you a Republican, as http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/27/ST2008042702368.html?hpid=topnews seems to be the opposite nationwide, due to the lack of quality candidates the GOP had this cycle.

Mitt Romney was a very viable candidate. He has tons of financial background in terms of turning companies completely around and making them perform well again, so in that aspect, he was the best candidate on both sides of the aisle other than Ron Paul. People just couldn't get past his Mormonism.

The Mormon thing might've hurt but I think his blatant political opportunism hurt more. He flip-flopped on several key issues over the past few years, in order to more closely allign himself with the GOP "base".

In a couple of the debates he did have a Presidential demeanor to him though, I'll give him that for sure. The "powerful, confident executive" type vibe. Well put-together and pretty well spoken.

Posted by: Roids May 11 2008, 05:36 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 11 2008, 04:31 PM)

The Mormon thing might've hurt but I think his blatant political opportunism hurt more.

Right. Fortunately for the dems, you don't see any of that in either of the democratic candidates.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 05:38 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ May 11 2008, 05:36 PM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 11 2008, 04:31 PM)

The Mormon thing might've hurt but I think his blatant political opportunism hurt more.

Right. Fortunately for the dems, you don't see any of that in either of the democratic candidates.

Would never claim that either of the democratic candidates are perfect, although I don't think their power grab was as transparent as Romney's. Clinton can be thrown into the "political opportunist" bucket as well, although her positions on key issues have remained pretty consistent I must say.

Posted by: Michael218532 May 11 2008, 07:07 PM
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 11 2008, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 11 2008, 02:38 PM)
That's really weird that THIS race would have made you a Republican, as http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/27/ST2008042702368.html?hpid=topnews seems to be the opposite nationwide, due to the lack of quality candidates the GOP had this cycle.

Mitt Romney was a very viable candidate. He has tons of financial background in terms of turning companies completely around and making them perform well again, so in that aspect, he was the best candidate on both sides of the aisle other than Ron Paul. People just couldn't get past his Mormonism.

im from MA and Romney did some good things for the economy, the only problem is that he simply could not cooperate with the Democratic congress and held up a lot bills that the people of MA really wanted pushed through (it baffles me that MA had Republican governors for 20 years up until Romney). i felt like since the day Romney was elected governor he was running for president, not trying to get things done for MA

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 07:44 PM
QUOTE (Michael218532 @ May 11 2008, 07:07 PM)
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 11 2008, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 11 2008, 02:38 PM)
That's really weird that THIS race would have made you a Republican, as http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/27/ST2008042702368.html?hpid=topnews seems to be the opposite nationwide, due to the lack of quality candidates the GOP had this cycle.

Mitt Romney was a very viable candidate. He has tons of financial background in terms of turning companies completely around and making them perform well again, so in that aspect, he was the best candidate on both sides of the aisle other than Ron Paul. People just couldn't get past his Mormonism.

im from MA and Romney did some good things for the economy, the only problem is that he simply could not cooperate with the Democratic congress and held up a lot bills that the people of MA really wanted pushed through (it baffles me that MA had Republican governors for 20 years up until Romney). i felt like since the day Romney was elected governor he was running for president, not trying to get things done for MA

Interesting to get your take on him, since you're from Mass. I hadn't talked to any Massholes tongue.gif about Romney really.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 11 2008, 09:10 PM
John McCain isn't teflon, he's caught plenty of flak for things. He just doesn't have much dirt.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 11 2008, 09:25 PM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 11 2008, 09:10 PM)
John McCain isn't teflon, he's caught plenty of flak for things. He just doesn't have much dirt.

You've been an AZ resident for a while, yes? What's your opinion of John McCain, having had him as your Senator for like 20 years now.

Not instigating, just curious of how his home state regards him.

I used to dig him back in 2000.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 11 2008, 10:34 PM
He's pretty popular in AZ. He's a politician who is seen as not afraid to go against the grain, if he feels it isn't best for his constituents, and for his beliefs. I like that even though he's Republican, he's stood up against Bush on things he disagreed with. He is not view here as a polished politician, but as a god public servant.

Posted by: Roids May 11 2008, 10:59 PM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 11 2008, 09:34 PM)
He's pretty popular in AZ. He's a politician who is seen as not afraid to go against the grain, if he feels it isn't best for his constituents, and for his beliefs. I like that even though he's Republican, he's stood up against Bush on things he disagreed with. He is not view here as a polished politician, but as a god public servant.

I have a different take on his reasoning for going "against the grain". He's had his sights in the whitehouse since the at least the late 1990s. In his effort to look like a "uniter", he's reached across the isle to make deals with politicians who will clearly work against him if he wins the presidency. In all fairness, he has at least attempted to work across the isle. For the past 8 years, it seems as if the democrat party's only responsibility has been to oppose the every idea that the republicans have put on the table.

Edit: How about Nancy Pelosi's solution? It's brilliant! When Bush recently suggested that we need to drill for oil in ANWAR while we continue to explore alternative fuels, she responded by chanting "veto & drill! Veto & drill!" Her suggestion was that we should tap the national reserves again. She sighted the fact that when the Clinton administration tapped the national reserves, the price of a barrel of oil dropped from $30 to $20 by the end of the year. That sounds like one hell of a temporary fix. If we do that again, perhaps it'll drop back down to $100 per barrel by year end. And of course, if we keep tapping our national reserves, perhaps the price of a barrel of oil will stay around $100 until the reserves go completely dry. In the meantime, we'll sock it to big oil with a windfall profit tax just to keep the cost of petrol at $4.00/gal.

Great solutions fron the democratic party! It will certainly keep the ignorant masses content. Oil prices will fall in the short run and the average joe 6-pack will believe that somehow, we're socking it to big oil. In the long run, oil prices will continue to increase as global demand for oil increases and value of the $USD continues to decline.

Wouldn't it be a dream come true if our elected leaders would focus on solving some some real world problems rather than on kicking democrat or republican ass?

Posted by: azfittrainer May 11 2008, 11:22 PM
I'm sure that was his only motive in nearly 30 years as a Senator, as it might one day help him become President. Especially when he went against a President who was very popular, in fact he's gone against several presidents. Stay out of politics, and stay with what your good at it, being a douche bag.

Posted by: Roids May 11 2008, 11:33 PM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 11 2008, 10:22 PM)
I'm sure that was his only motive in nearly 30 years as a Senator, as it might one day help him become President. Especially when he went against a President who was very popular, in fact he's gone against several presidents. Stay out of politics, and stay with what your good at it, being a douche bag.

No thanks assfit. I could never match your abilities. You've earned the reputation at this forum as the master of douchebagary.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 11 2008, 11:45 PM
Lol you wish. Unlike you, I actually have constructive things to say to people.

Posted by: Will109090 May 12 2008, 12:13 AM
QUOTE (Roids @ May 11 2008, 10:59 PM)
Wouldn't it be a dream come true if our elected leaders would focus on solving some some real world problems rather than on kicking democrat or republican ass?

Word. All of these fucking scumbag politicians just bitch and fight. I'm going to go to Capitol Hill one day and watch them "work" from the public viewing area, and when I don't see them doing shit, which is all the time, I'm going to start bashing all of them and screaming at Ted about how he murdered that young woman, call Pelosi a man, and tell Huckabee that he's a fat ass.

Jenna was looking pretty in her wedding photos though.

Posted by: Roids May 12 2008, 12:18 AM
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 11 2008, 11:13 PM)
Jenna was looking pretty in her wedding photos though.

To me she kind of looks like George W. in drag. I'd still hit it though! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: azfittrainer May 12 2008, 09:40 AM
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 12 2008, 12:13 AM)
QUOTE (Roids @ May 11 2008, 10:59 PM)
Wouldn't it be a dream come true if our elected leaders would focus on solving some some real world problems rather than on kicking democrat or republican ass?

Word. All of these fucking scumbag politicians just bitch and fight. I'm going to go to Capitol Hill one day and watch them "work" from the public viewing area, and when I don't see them doing shit, which is all the time, I'm going to start bashing all of them and screaming at Ted about how he murdered that young woman, call Pelosi a man, and tell Huckabee that he's a fat ass.

Jenna was looking pretty in her wedding photos though.

So when you go to prison for the rest of your life, can we come visit you?

Posted by: Roids May 12 2008, 10:09 AM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 12 2008, 08:40 AM)
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 12 2008, 12:13 AM)
QUOTE (Roids @ May 11 2008, 10:59 PM)
Wouldn't it be a dream come true if our elected leaders would focus on solving some some real world problems rather than on kicking democrat or republican ass?

Word. All of these fucking scumbag politicians just bitch and fight. I'm going to go to Capitol Hill one day and watch them "work" from the public viewing area, and when I don't see them doing shit, which is all the time, I'm going to start bashing all of them and screaming at Ted about how he murdered that young woman, call Pelosi a man, and tell Huckabee that he's a fat ass.

Jenna was looking pretty in her wedding photos though.

So when you go to prison for the rest of your life, can we come visit you?

Don't discourage him. I want to see it when he does this.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 12 2008, 10:15 AM
I thought I told you to stay out of the political threads.

Posted by: Will109090 May 12 2008, 11:38 PM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 12 2008, 09:40 AM)
QUOTE (Will109090 @ May 12 2008, 12:13 AM)
QUOTE (Roids @ May 11 2008, 10:59 PM)
Wouldn't it be a dream come true if our elected leaders would focus on solving some some real world problems rather than on kicking democrat or republican ass?

Word. All of these fucking scumbag politicians just bitch and fight. I'm going to go to Capitol Hill one day and watch them "work" from the public viewing area, and when I don't see them doing shit, which is all the time, I'm going to start bashing all of them and screaming at Ted about how he murdered that young woman, call Pelosi a man, and tell Huckabee that he's a fat ass.

Jenna was looking pretty in her wedding photos though.

So when you go to prison for the rest of your life, can we come visit you?

lol, you think someone would go to prison for life for doing this?? You don't know the laws of this country.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 12 2008, 11:45 PM
For attacking Senators? What do you think the penalty would be?

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 12 2008, 11:50 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/25/cheney.leahy/ laugh.gif Doesn't have much to do with anything in this thread (although I guess it's along the lines of "attacking a Senator") but I still find this story hilarious. Almost forgot it happened. Ah Dick, he's a beauty.

Posted by: Will109090 May 13 2008, 12:21 AM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 12 2008, 11:45 PM)
For attacking Senators? What do you think the penalty would be?

Cursing at them is entirely different than jumping down two stories and running around punching them.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 13 2008, 01:05 AM
i took bashing to mean hitting them

Posted by: ftank May 16 2008, 01:38 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 12 2008, 11:50 PM)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/25/cheney.leahy/ laugh.gif Doesn't have much to do with anything in this thread (although I guess it's along the lines of "attacking a Senator") but I still find this story hilarious. Almost forgot it happened. Ah Dick, he's a beauty.

Wow, this earned points for Cheney. I don't even like Cheney. But damn, that's fuckin' awesome.

Posted by: Roids May 16 2008, 02:00 PM
Edited per azfit's instructions. sad.gif

Posted by: azfittrainer May 16 2008, 02:04 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ May 16 2008, 02:00 PM)
That was a beautiful moment. I wish there was a youtube video showing it.

I thought I told you to stay out of the politcial threads boy, don't you listen?

Posted by: Roids May 16 2008, 02:08 PM
Erh, I forgot. see above.

Posted by: jcsouthcentral May 16 2008, 02:08 PM
QUOTE (azfittrainer @ May 12 2008, 11:45 PM)
For attacking Senators? What do you think the penalty would be?

Does anyone remember what representative years ago hit another one with his cane when he got pissed off? I know people sent the guy canes with gold tips afterwards. I can't seem to remember but I always thought it was funny.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 16 2008, 02:12 PM
If I remember correctly I think he got sentenced to a misdemeanor.

Posted by: Roids May 16 2008, 02:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wpn1gp-gcU

Posted by: azfittrainer May 16 2008, 02:21 PM
I didn't know Alabama had a state senate, I thought the person with the most teeth was elected governor, and made the rules.

Posted by: Roids May 16 2008, 02:23 PM
Nah, I got all 24 of mine and they haven't called on me yet. huh.gif

That must be the way it is in AZ where any scrawney punk can get a job at a jr. college as a strength coach.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 16 2008, 02:25 PM
Lol, I'll bet I'm stronger than you. It takes more than bragging about "when I was younger" to get a job as a strength coach. I tell you what, take the CSCS exam, if you pass, then we'll talk.

Posted by: Roids May 16 2008, 02:28 PM
When I SFW today, I was able to BP 275 for 11 reps. But, I'm up to 255lbs right now, trying to gain back some of the mass I've lost over the last 3 years. I'm planning on blubbing up a bit more, then dropping down to around 220ish in order to be fairly jacked & tan for the summer. That's the plan anyway. We'll see.

Posted by: azfittrainer May 16 2008, 02:36 PM
http://www.nsca-cc.org/cscs/sample.html


Try these, see how you do

Posted by: Roids May 16 2008, 02:53 PM
Interesting. I got 4/9 right. Guess I got an F. I think I may have been underprepared. mad.gif

Posted by: azfittrainer May 16 2008, 03:08 PM
Most people fail it. Being an S&C coach isn't as simple as telling a kid to bench for 5 sets, and squat for 5 sets, then go eat a heavy dinner.

Posted by: JW32Hoops May 21 2008, 09:29 PM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63756

That's a quote from John McCain AFTER he learned that Hagee said the US deserved 9/11 for the "abortionists, feminists, secularists" etc. Think he'll back away from the man whose endorsement he sought (and got, and is "glad to have") now that the Hitler comments are public or will he continue to be "glad"?

Posted by: ftank May 22 2008, 09:55 AM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ May 21 2008, 09:29 PM)
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=63756

That's a quote from John McCain AFTER he learned that Hagee said the US deserved 9/11 for the "abortionists, feminists, secularists" etc.  Think he'll back away from the man whose endorsement he sought (and got, and is "glad to have") now that the Hitler comments are public or will he continue to be "glad"?

More votes are more votes? Both parties have their unscrupulous acquaintances. That is hardly one to point out.

*edit*
+1 McCain.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/22/mccain.hagee/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 03:50 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/30veep.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 07:21 PM
I don\'t care to register to read the article. But, anyway, ohmy.gifl: @ you for posting a NY Times article. The Times is nothing but a liberal journal nowadays. It\'s like me posting a Fox News editorial written by Sean Hannity.

BTW, Dub, you\'re looking jack\'d in your avy. You mut be on Havoc or sum10.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 07:30 PM
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/29/mccain-to-name-running-mate-on-friday/

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 07:37 PM
Looks like the times wa trying to slip in a little dirt. But, I wouldn\'t call it desperation. He picked his VP for a reason just as B. Hussein Obama picked his for a reason. Obama knew he needed someone with a longer resume on the ticket who could also rein in those bitter blue collar blue collar democrats that cling to their guns and religion. While, McCain is after those angry Hillary supporters. We\'ll see if it works.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 07:41 PM
It will be interesting to see if any of Hillary's supporters will be willing to cross the aisle and vote for J. Sidney McCain because his VP's a woman...especially considering that Palin is against all abortion rights, even in cases of rape or incest.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 07:43 PM
Are you sure she\'s totally against abortion in all circumstances? I consider myself conservative, but I only disagree with abortion as a convenience, basically a form of birth control.

I haven\'t heard that she\'s against it in cases of rape or incest.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 07:45 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 07:43 PM)
Are you sure she\'s totally against abortion in all circumstances? I consider myself conservative, but I only disagree with abortion as a convenience, basically a form of birth control.

I haven\'t heard that she\'s against it in cases of rape or incest.

http://www.naral.org/elections/election-pr/pr08292008_palin.html

QUOTE
Palin, a member of the anti-choice group Feminists for Life, said during her campaign for governor that she is opposed to abortion, even in cases of rape or incest. [Juneau Empire, "Abortion Draws Clear Divide in State Races," accessed 8/29/08 and Anchorage Daily News, "Governor’s Race: Top contenders meet one last time to debate," 11/03/06.]

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 07:48 PM
I\'m a bit ambivalent on the issue. I used to be completely \"pro-choice.\" But, when you have kids and you\'re able to put a human face on the issue, it tends to change your perspective a bit. At least it did for me. I don\'t think that will exactly be a deciding factor in any election though. As they say. there are much bigger fish to fry.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 07:53 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 07:48 PM)
I\'m a bit ambivalent on the issue. I used to be completely \"pro-choice.\" But, when you have kids and you\'re able to put a human face on the issue, it tends to change your perspective a bit. At least it did for me. I don\'t think that will exactly be a deciding factor in any election though. As they say. there are much bigger fish to fry.

I'm middle-of-the-road on this issue, as you are. I think women should have the right to choose, however not as a form of contraception. Politicians who are against abortion in cases of rape/incest seem very extreme to me.

Another source that cites Palin as being anti-choice, even in cases of rape/incest:
http://www.lifenews.com/nat4238.html (this one's from a pro-life site, since my last source was a pro-choice site)

Anyhoo, I just think it'll be interesting to see if the Hillary supporters J. Sidney McCain is desparately hoping to woo with this VP choice will be willing to vote for him, simply because he chose a woman as a running mate...even though she is against a woman's right to choose, under any circumstances.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:04 PM
You mean right to choose abortion. :wink: I doubt the middle aged white women and the working class folks who supported Hillry will be too concerned about that.

What is interesting is that we have a repub who can bring some dems over. McCain seems kind of like a repub that many democrats can live with. Bush was purely a divider.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 08:08 PM
QUOTE
What is interesting is that we have a repub who can bring some dems over.


http://www.republicansforobama.org/ wink.gif

QUOTE
Bush was purely a divider.


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/05/06/bush/


Anyway, this little Saturday political discussion of ours has been pretty civil. I'm gonna quit while we're ahead and focus on baseball, SFW, etc.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:10 PM
laugh.gif I\'m a pretty civil cat. The only time I get rough is when I\'m talking to someone who\'s way out to the far left, like abaddon or adamgrossman. I just have fun getting the riled up.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 08:14 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:10 PM)
I'm a pretty civil cat.

Riiiiiiight.

Regards,
Your avatar rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:24 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Aug 30 2008, 08:14 PM)
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:10 PM)
I\'m a pretty civil cat.

Riiiiiiight.

Regards,
Your avatar rolleyes.gif

Sometimes, I just can\'t help myself. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 08:27 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:24 PM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Aug 30 2008, 08:14 PM)
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:10 PM)
I\'m a pretty civil cat.

Riiiiiiight.

Regards,
Your avatar rolleyes.gif

Sometimes, I just can\'t help myself. rolleyes.gif

I understand completely

user posted image

(although mine's not doctored)

wink.gif

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:32 PM
I don\'t think there\'s any love affair b/w the two of them. You jst have to be loyal to your party and show unity. Daschle did the same thing shortly after 9/11. Politicians do what they do when it\'s politically expedient.

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/downloads/td.jpg

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 08:36 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:32 PM)
I don\'t think there\'s any love affair b/w the two of them.

But you DO believe that Barack Obama has a beard and wears a turban?

Was just pointing out your ridiculous avatar, juxtaposed with a picture of something that actually occurred. Nah mean?

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:39 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Aug 30 2008, 08:36 PM)
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:32 PM)
I don\\\'t think there\\\'s any love affair b/w the two of them.

But you DO believe that Barack Obama has a beard and wears a turban?

Was just pointing out your ridiculous avatar, juxtaposed with a picture of something that actually occurred. Nah mean?

No, he clearly shaved it off for the DNCC. rolleyes.gif


Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:39 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Aug 30 2008, 08:36 PM)
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:32 PM)
I don\\\\\\\'t think there\\\\\\\'s any love affair b/w the two of them.

But you DO believe that Barack Obama has a beard and wears a turban?

Was just pointing out your ridiculous avatar, juxtaposed with a picture of something that actually occurred. Nah mean?

No, he clearly shaved it off for the DNCC. rolleyes.gif

You know that avy is just as much for you and adamgrossman as it is for me. Moreso actually. laugh.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 08:41 PM
You're right, he was looking pretty sharp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQGsP8mnHsg&feature=related

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:46 PM
Werd. As Joe Biden said, he is very clean looking and articulate.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 08:48 PM
Hell yeah...he crushed it in Denver too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVH58DeUThg

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 08:52 PM
Werd. He gave a helluva speech. I saw it. It just seems like the ticket is inverted. Biden is kind of like the democrat that many repubs could live with. Obama just seems to far to the left that you\'d have to go to Cuba to find a politician to the left of him.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 09:04 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 08:52 PM)
Werd. He gave a helluva speech. I saw it. Biden is kind of like the democrat that many repubs could live with.

I hear ya man...you know I'm a big Biden fan from my old "Top 5" when there were like 10 Dems and 10 GOP candidates to start the primary season. In fact, I think he was in my Top 3, alongside Barack and Ron Paul.

http://biden.senate.gov/

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 09:18 PM
I know a good bit abot Biden. He\\\'s a democrat I could possibly vote for, if he were running against someone like Bush or Huckabee.

But, if Biden was in your top 3 and you also like Ron Paul, how can you possibly be so excited about Obama? He and Ron Paul are opposite poles. RP is a conservative. Biden is middle of the road, much like McCain. Obama is ultra-left.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 09:42 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 09:18 PM)
I know a good bit abot Biden. He\\\'s a democrat I could possibly vote for, if he were running against someone like Bush or Huckabee.

But, if Biden was in your top 3 and you also like Ron Paul, how can you possibly be so excited about Obama? He and Ron Paul are opposite poles. RP is a conservative. Biden is middle of the road, much like McCain. Obama is ultra-left.

Is it possible for someone to support candidates from either party, depending on the candidate themselves, the issues that are important to them, the year, etc. I've supported Republican candidates in the past (not just fringe ones like Paul) because I either believed in them, supported their view on a specific key issue or two or flat-out wasn't impressed by the Democratic candidate in that particular election.

If I had to put myself in a box (as you'd like to) I'd say left-of-center, not quite as far as Michael Moore but certainly way further left than Joe Lieberman.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 09:48 PM
I think you have Lieberman pegged wrong. He is only consevative on issues like crime and national security. He\'s well left of center on just about all the other issues. In fact, the Iraq war is about the only issue where he sided with Bush.

I couldn\'t even vote for someone like Lieberman because he\'s too far left on most domestic issues and his Iraq position.

But, Obama just seems like a backdrop. He\'s nothing wrapped up in a nice handsome package.


Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 09:50 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 09:48 PM)
Obama just seems like a backdrop. He\'s nothing wrapped up in a nice handsome package.

I hear that a lot from my friends who are furthest to the right, but then I listen to Obama speak, I listen to Biden speak, I listen to McCain speak and...I respecfully disagree with the legitimacy of that argument.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 09:54 PM
Is that when he\\\'s on or off the teleprompter? rolleyes.gif Maybe he\\\'ll agree to a debate with McCain on Halloween night around 10:00pm. laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 09:58 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 09:54 PM)
Is that when he\\\'s on or off the teleprompter? rolleyes.gif Maybe he\\\'ll agree to a debate with McCain on Halloween night around 10:00pm. laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

The Halloween @ 10pm line went right over my head. It'll be interesting to see if Obama looks like a "stuffed suit" when he's toe-to-toe against McCain during the debates. Can't wait to watch 'em.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 10:06 PM
McCain challenged Obama to a debate a while back and Obama agreed to one debate on July 4th at 10:00pm.

Posted by: Roids Aug 30 2008, 10:10 PM
Take your time googling. No rush. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Aug 30 2008, 10:55 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Aug 30 2008, 10:10 PM)
Take your time googling. No rush. rolleyes.gif

Actually left the house to take care of some stuff, sorry to leave you waiting for a witty retort.

Anyway, from this schedule, it looks like there will be 3 Obama/McCain debates and 1 Biden/Palin debate over the next 6 weeks. Should be quite the political spectacle...can't wait.

http://www.youdecide2008.com/2008/08/21/official-2008-obama-mccain-presidential-debate-schedule/

Posted by: AdamGrossman Aug 30 2008, 11:18 PM
Interesting comments in here...I'm leavin the gloves on tonight.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 2 2008, 04:34 PM
McCain tries to tout Palin's experience...winds up lying.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hj0INfou9GhMYE2nyalH5O9dKRUwD92UPOLG5

To be fair, I don't think it's an actual lie. In politics, I think the correct word is "mis-spoke".

Posted by: Roids Sep 2 2008, 07:56 PM
I'de feel better if she's at least been a community organizer and had a year or so in the Senate. laugh.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 10:53 AM
Barack Obama was an Illinois State Senator for 7 years and he's been a US Senator for almost 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#State_legislator.2C_1997.E2.80.932004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 11:09 AM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 10:53 AM)
Barack Obama was an Illinois State Senator for 7 years and he's been a US Senator for almost 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#State_legislator.2C_1997.E2.80.932004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present

Senate = legislative

He has never had ANY executive power... ever.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 11:46 AM
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 10:53 AM)
Barack Obama was an Illinois State Senator for 7 years and he's been a US Senator for almost 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#State_legislator.2C_1997.E2.80.932004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present

Senate = legislative

He has never had ANY executive power... ever.

J. Sidney McCain is also a Senator without ANY executive power, correct?

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 11:46 AM)
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 10:53 AM)
Barack Obama was an Illinois State Senator for 7 years and he's been a US Senator for almost 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#State_legislator.2C_1997.E2.80.932004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present

Senate = legislative

He has never had ANY executive power... ever.

J. Sidney McCain is also a Senator without ANY executive power, correct?

Hey, this isn't about Mr. McCain. rolleyes.gif

But, he did have executive power over troops in 'Nam. ph34r.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 12:05 PM
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 11:55 AM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 11:46 AM)
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 10:53 AM)
Barack Obama was an Illinois State Senator for 7 years and he's been a US Senator for almost 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#State_legislator.2C_1997.E2.80.932004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present

Senate = legislative

He has never had ANY executive power... ever.

J. Sidney McCain is also a Senator without ANY executive power, correct?

Hey, this isn't about Mr. McCain. rolleyes.gif

No worries bro. We're all "waiting to see if this Palin gimmick will work" just like the GOP.

user posted image

"Desperation on three.....ready? Hut!"

Posted by: Roids Sep 3 2008, 02:39 PM
Palin gimmick huh? How about going on an overseas publicity tour to prove you have foreign policy credentials in one trip? Now that\\\'s a gimmick IMHO.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 02:52 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Sep 3 2008, 02:39 PM)
Palin gimmick huh?  How about going on an overseas publicity tour to prove you have foreign policy credentials in one trip?  Now that\\\'s a gimmick IMHO.

Didn't McCain go on a trip to the Middle East (with his sidekick Lieberman who had to correct him when he "misspoke") a couple months back? The only reason J. Sidney didn't have a huge speech while he was overseas is because he wouldn't be able to fill an arena with people dying to hear him speak.

Whatever...the GOP chides Obama for not visiting the Middle East enough, then, when he does go, they get on him for his "big, fancy trip overseas"...they're reaching man. They don't have enough confidence in McCain/Palin so they're gonna do their damndest to grasp at straws to tear down Barack. Understandable.

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 02:58 PM
So, candidates aside, J-Dub, where do you stand on the "issues"? Just curious...

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 03:08 PM
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 02:58 PM)
So, candidates aside, J-Dub, where do you stand on the "issues"? Just curious...

Lemme run a few of the "hot button" ones down real quick.

Iraq - Should've never been there. Those who deceived us into it should be held accountable. Going forward, we need to leave as quickly and responsibly as possible.

Energy - Our dependence on oil has been long and well documented. We need to put time, energy (pun kinda intended) resources, etc toward developing sustainable alternate fuels and means of energy. Repealing the gas tax for a summer or drilling part of Alaska seems to be a band-aid type solution to me.

Marriage - Hetero marriages are effed...no reason why the gays shouldn't be able to subject themselves to the same fate. My uncle (who is gay) has been with the same guy for 30 years. If they wanna get married (and therefore get the right to visit one another in the hospital, etc) it doesn't bother me any.

Abortion - It should be available, but only as one part of an all encompassing birth control information blitz. Places like Planned Parenthood should continue to distribute as much information on abstinance and safe sex as possible, while still keeping safe abortions legally available.

Taxes - Who doesn't want them lower? Obviously we all want to pay as little as possible, but we also need certain services from our government and they need to be paid for with our tax dollars, so "tax dollar appropriation" is really the issue here. Out of every $1 in our taxes, what % goes to what...etc.

2nd Ammendment - As Barack said the other night: "The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals." There needs to be a happy medium between letting people own guns and the vetting process and regulatory laws that go into who should be able to own one and when, where, etc.

OK, gotta get back to work. Be back in a bit...

Posted by: Roids Sep 3 2008, 03:11 PM

Anyway, McCain has gone to Iraq and on other overseas many times. It's routine for him and he's also not the new enigmatic phenom, darling of the left, like B. Hussein is. It's just not big news when he does, just as it isn't when someone like Biden or Lieberman go overseas.


Shakes: "So, candidates aside, J-Dub, where do you stand on the "issues"? Just curious... "


That's easy. He stands shoulder-to-shoulder with B. Hussein Obama. laugh.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 03:17 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Sep 3 2008, 03:11 PM)
Shakes: "So, candidates aside, J-Dub, where do you stand on the "issues"? Just curious... "


That's easy. He stands shoulder-to-shoulder with B. Hussein Obama. laugh.gif

Umm...or you could read the somewhat thorough explanations of my positions that I just typed out.

Listen, I do like Barack as a candidate...I'll make no apologies for siding with him. It doesn't mean that I think he walks on water or is 100% correct in every single instance on every issue every time.

I'd love for us to have a better Healthcare system, but I'm wary about the system he proposes. It'll be interesting to see how it will be implemented, how it will affect the average family, etc.

It's almost impossible to find a candidate that you agree with 100% of the time. Otherwise, you might as well just write your own name in every time you hit the voting booth.

Posted by: Roids Sep 3 2008, 03:22 PM
I know, I\'m just jabbin\' atcha. I\'m just leary of him because we\'ve never had a guy this far left before. McCain seems like a solid guy who\'s not afraid to oppose people in his own party when he disagrees. But, he also seems like a one-termer waiting to happen.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 03:37 PM
QUOTE (Roids @ Sep 3 2008, 03:22 PM)
McCain seems like a solid guy who\'s not afraid to oppose people in his own party when he disagrees.

I hear ya on that. http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_bush.cfm

Regarding the "one term" thing...you think he'd die during his 1st term, therefore handing Sarah Palin the Presidency? Or do you think he'd just muddle through the same "stay the course" stuff and hope to not screw things up too badly for Romney in 2012?

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 04:15 PM
QUOTE

QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 02:58 PM)

So, candidates aside, J-Dub, where do you stand on the "issues"?  Just curious...

Lemme run a few of the "hot button" ones down real quick.

Iraq - Should've never been there. Those who deceived us into it should be held accountable. Going forward, we need to leave as quickly and responsibly as possible.

I agree. I don't think the WMD story holds up at all. Only other reason would be to have a foothold in the oil-rich Middle East, which I can agree with to an extent. You can't have the most desired (critical) natural resource in the hands of lunatics.


Energy - Our dependence on oil has been long and well documented. We need to put time, energy (pun kinda intended) resources, etc toward developing sustainable alternate fuels and means of energy. Repealing the gas tax for a summer or drilling part of Alaska seems to be a band-aid type solution to me.

Phasing out oil is a definite must. But, the timeframe for that to happen is longer than most people think, IMO. I think we should open up areas for drilling, even if it is just to "get us by" until we are all green to the gills. The gas holiday bullshit is just that... bullshit.

Marriage - Hetero marriages are effed...no reason why the gays shouldn't be able to subject themselves to the same fate. My uncle (who is gay) has been with the same guy for 30 years. If they wanna get married (and therefore get the right to visit one another in the hospital, etc) it doesn't bother me any.

I def. agree w/ homosexual "unions" and/or marriages in the eyes of the law. I think we have to go back and see what benefits or detriments come along w/ marriage (speaking of taxes, legal issues, etc.) and adjust accordingly. I do see room for abuse, as 2 guys or 2 girls are MUCH more likely to become a "union" to gain marriage benefits.

Abortion - It should be available, but only as one part of an all encompassing birth control information blitz. Places like Planned Parenthood should continue to distribute as much information on abstinance and safe sex as possible, while still keeping safe abortions legally available.

I think it should be available, even though I don't agree with it except under extreme circumstances. And by "birth control information blitz", I hope you mean mandatory sterilization (temporary?) for any woman on wellfare or other gov't assistance. LOL Education works to some extent. But, the problem isn't with people that understand the implications of pregnancy, the problem is the fucking vermin that don't care or are too stupid to see past their nose (or those that just have kids to get more of my tax $$$).

Taxes - Who doesn't want them lower? Obviously we all want to pay as little as possible, but we also need certain services from our government and they need to be paid for with our tax dollars, so "tax dollar appropriation" is really the issue here. Out of every $1 in our taxes, what % goes to what...etc.

This will most likely be the biggest issue in which we differ. This kind of goes back to the "vermin" comment above. I know plenty of people who could do things without assistance, some being friends, but most take the handout with open arms when they really need to be swinging a sledgehammer or flipping burgers somewhere instead.

2nd Amendment - As Barack said the other night: "The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals." There needs to be a happy medium between letting people own guns and the vetting process and regulatory laws that go into who should be able to own one and when, where, etc.

Criminals are criminals. I doubt many of those that commit crimes with "assault" weapons got them from a legal dealer. Also, the government can and will kick our ass if it came to some crazy revolution (unless some military sects were on "our" side). And, I believe that to be the reason for the 2nd Amendment. I don't think it strictly meant guns for the Illinois "militia" or nat. guard.

OK, gotta get back to work. Be back in a bit...


Thanks for you time. smile.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 04:28 PM
You've gotta do some more political sparring with me Shakes. It's nice to have an adversary (at least this year I believe you are) who is willing to talk things out using logic and reason while remaining civil.......hell, I've even seen you cite a source or two in the past!

Like I said before, it'll be VERY rare that anyone finds a candidate that they agree with 100% of the time, just like I'm not going to agree with Roids, AdamGrossman, ShakesAllDay, etc 100% of the time, but as long as we can be civil and attempt to back up our arguments, then I'm down to chat about this stuff.

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 05:06 PM
I find myself in the moderate + libertarian + centrist boat. I analyze each issue using available information and common sense. I don't vote along party lines like a lot of political sheep out there.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 05:10 PM
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 05:06 PM)
I find myself in the moderate + libertarian + centrist boat. I analyze each issue using available information and common sense. I don't vote along party lines like a lot of political sheep out there.

As much as I'd love to say I'm "above it" I have to say that I've done the party-line thing before. Sometimes, on the down-card elections, when I don't know either candidate...I'll either vote Democratic as default, or I'll say to myself "do I like how this municipality is handling it's business?" (i.e. are there potholes everywhere? is corruption rampant? are taxes sky high? etc) If I like the way things are going, I'll stick with the incumbent. If I don't, I'll vote for the challenger.

The more we live, the more we learn though. I've been Independent, a Republican and now a Democrat...and I'm only 27! Who knows how I (and the world that shapes us all) will change in the future.

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 05:12 PM
Also, I'm a strong proponent for states' rights.

Speaking of states, I just saw on the news that Alabama employers may be able to weigh people, or otherwise determine if they are fat lardos, and take a chunk out of their paycheck until they shape up.

Of course, this can be a slippery slope. Who's to say that being 225 and muscular vs. 225 and 20% BF is worse? If we leave it to politicians to decide, they may say "all of the above". Especially if they consider that retarded metric we call Body Mass Index. I get charged more for insurance - health and life - because I lift weights.

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 05:16 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 05:10 PM)
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 05:06 PM)
I find myself in the moderate + libertarian + centrist boat.  I analyze each issue using available information and common sense.  I don't vote along party lines like a lot of political sheep out there.

As much as I'd love to say I'm "above it" I have to say that I've done the party-line thing before. Sometimes, on the down-card elections, when I don't know either candidate...I'll either vote Democratic as default, or I'll say to myself "do I like how this municipality is handling it's business?" (i.e. are there potholes everywhere? is corruption rampant? are taxes sky high? etc) If I like the way things are going, I'll stick with the incumbent. If I don't, I'll vote for the challenger.

The more we live, the more we learn though. I've been Independent, a Republican and now a Democrat...and I'm only 27! Who knows how I (and the world that shapes us all) will change in the future.

I hear ya. I'm the same way. If you don't know the candidates, you look at other aspects related to their tenure. If you like, you vote for them. If you have absolutely no data to go on, like happens in a lot of state-level voting, then a person might choose demo or repub based on the person's understanding of the parties' philosophy and hopes it all works out.

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 05:21 PM
I disagree with...

Republicans on:

religion (far right weirdos)
abortion (which probably stems from religion)
pro-corp (exporting labor, etc.)

Democrats on:

well-fare
taxes
gun control
education
energy


And I love the new buzzword "disadvantaged". Fuck me.

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 05:30 PM
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 05:12 PM)
Also, I'm a strong proponent for states' rights.

I hear ya on that one. We need to be "united" for the sake of our cohesive sovereignty, but what works for one state might not for another. Maybe people in Wyoming need more access to different guns because of the hunting culture up there. That doesn't mean sweeping legislation that encompasses the entire nation is the answer, because in San Diego, I can't imagine there's much to hunt.

Just one example, but I know what you mean on giving each state some flexibility to set a slightly different agenda or have their own identity.

Posted by: Jayv24 Sep 3 2008, 05:50 PM
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 05:12 PM)
Who's to say that being 225 and muscular vs. 225 and 20% BF is worse?

The surgeon general for one.


http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/obesity/calltoaction/fact_consequences.htm


fat fucks = higher insurance premiums, lower workforce productivity and the inevitable decline of society in general.


Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 3 2008, 05:52 PM
I just noticed that dog watching Colombu (or is that Metzger?) deadlift in your sig Jayv...so random.

Posted by: ShakesAllDay Sep 3 2008, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (Jayv24 @ Sep 3 2008, 05:50 PM)
QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Sep 3 2008, 05:12 PM)
Who's to say that being 225 and muscular vs. 225 and 20% BF is worse? 

The surgeon general for one.


http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/obesity/calltoaction/fact_consequences.htm


fat fucks = higher insurance premiums, lower workforce productivity and the inevitable decline of society in general.

According to the literature you posted, a BMI of >30 have a 50-100% chance of premature death compared to people of a "healthy weight", and people w/ a BMI of >25 have increased incidence of heart disease.

It all comes down to the shitty BMI metric not taking into account BF levels.

They do have an "*" next to the BMI figures and mention some BMI "fact sheet", but I can't find the link to verify how they are measuring BMI in relation to this report.

This is exactly what I'm saying. I have a BMI of 32.3 according to http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

So, even though I have a lower BF and assume myself to have a much better well-being than the "average" 32 BMI individual, I am going to get tagged by new legislation based on BMI.

Posted by: Roids Sep 3 2008, 07:03 PM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 05:10 PM)
The more we live, the more we learn though. I've been Independent, a Republican and now a Democrat...and I'm only 27! Who knows how I (and the world that shapes us all) will change in the future.

Exactly. I had previously been one to vote Repub by default. I was starting to slide to the left when Bush took us into Iraq. But, when I started to really examine the politics of the democrat side, I found that I disagreed with them on many more issues and they seemed just as phoney and "in it for themselves" as those politicians that had alienated me on the repub side.

I think the reality is that there are probably only a handful of descent politicians who are truley looking out for what is right on either side, dem and repub. Bush isn't one, Cheney sure as hell isn't one. Harry Ried is not, Nancy Pelosi is not. Nor is Howard Dean. Gulliani is kind of a douche, etc. Frankly, I believe an honest politician is about as rare as an honest used car salesman.

Posted by: Will109090 Sep 4 2008, 12:00 AM
I think I can honestly say that Ron Paul is one of those few politicians that truly cares about the future of this country and its people.

Posted by: Roids Sep 4 2008, 12:03 AM
QUOTE (Will109090 @ Sep 4 2008, 12:00 AM)
I think I can honestly say that Ron Paul is one of those few politicians that truly cares about the future of this country and its people.

He probabl does, but I still have my doubts as to whether he has it right. He's an isolationist and I don't think any country can make it in isolation in our times. We tried it until we were forced into WWII.

Posted by: Jayv24 Sep 4 2008, 04:08 AM
QUOTE (JW32Hoops @ Sep 3 2008, 05:52 PM)
I just noticed that dog watching Colombu (or is that Metzger?) deadlift in your sig Jayv...so random.


Yeah, notice how he's staring at Columbu, admiringly? lol

laugh.gif

Posted by: JW32Hoops Sep 12 2008, 12:47 PM
I'd almost totally forgotten about this. Apparently J. Sidney McCain's wife was in a bad car accident. McCain then begain cheating on his wife with then 25-year old Cindy McCain (this is before Cindy was addicted to pills and booze) before eventually leaving his old wife for the new younger one.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_john_mccain_cheat_on_his_first.html

Granted, Cindy is definitely hot (and I'm sure at 25 she was smokin) but speaking as a married guy, that's kinda scumbaggish.

Posted by: Roids Sep