hi All , <br><br>I tried piracetam for a month now and haven't seen any good effect. <br>All I got from it is tiredness , sleepiness , lethargy ,... <br><br>The only-good- thing I noticed is better quality of sleep and for longer period of time .<br><br>I tried different doses from 1/4 teaspoon to &quot;attack doses&quot; of 3mgX3 /day .<br><br>I also mixed it with Choline citrate for a whole week but nothing happened .<br><br>I saw that many people are getting very good effect from it .<br><br>I was wondering if I should keep trying with different doses /stacks or just give up .<br><br>Maybe my brain is not responsive to this chemical .<br><br>Thank you for any advice !

You need to take Vitamin B5 (Panthothenic Acid) along with a good 100mg/day B-complex, and also a significant choline source (egg yolks 4-6 / day).

B5 is critical to making Acetylcholine.

First, B5 is used to make Coenzyme A:

{LINK}"Pantothenic acid is vital to the synthesis and maintenance of coenzyme A (CoA), a cofactor and acyl group carrier for many enzymatic processes, and acyl carrier protein, a component of the fatty acid synthase complex. Pantothenic acid is metabolized to coenzyme A via a sequence of steps."

Second, Coenzyme A is converted into Acetyl Coenzyme A:

{LINK}"Acetyl coenzyme A is formed when a two-carbon acetyl group is added to the coenzyme A carrier group."

Third, Acetyl Coenzyme A and Choline are combined using the enzyme "choline acetyltransferase" to form AcetylCholine, with the Acetyl Coenzyme A donating its Acetyl group to the Choline:

{LINK}"Acetylcholine is synthesized from choline and acetyl coenzyme A through the action of the enzyme choline acetyltransferase and becomes packaged into membrane-bound vesicles."

piracetam is a glutaminergic drug, not a cholinergic drug.

piracetam affects downstream mechanisms far removed from direct cholinergic stimulation.

since someone is probably curious, piracetam is a positive allosteric modulator of NMDA receptors (very similar to nefiracetam, but completely oppositve of huperzine or memantine). essentially, piracetam increases NMDA receptor density in parts of the brain, specifically the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex.

the way this affects acetylcholine transmission is by increasing BDNF through two mechanisms (which are beyond the scope of this conversation). the increased BDNF attaches to trkB receptors on cholinergic neurons which further facilitates nerve transduction.

the end result is categorized as long term potentiation (LTP) and/or long term depression (LTD), which is described as better learning capacity.

for those of you still reading (which are probably few), the way you can synergize your supplementation for a nootropic approach would be to supplement with high amounts of L-serine or L-glycine. the L-serine will interact with a few enzymes, one of which will invert the stereocenter, converting it to D-serine (which is more responsible for NMDA action than glycine). a second item would be to add a AMPA modulator such as Aniracetam. Lastly, ALCAR can be added in to increase choline retention and recycling (which is more important [and bioavailable] than straight choline or a choline analogue).

Your knowledge throws mine in the shadows; much appreciated. Now, knowing what you do, what do you think of Piracetam / Aniracetam tolerance?

Also, what about those folks who report their headaches end with choline supplementation?

i don't know how a headache could be reversed by choline, or a lackthereof.

I digress. Good advice. Probably more relevant to those suffering from age-related dementia's, however.

I ordered some piracetam and Choline Bitartrate. does anyone have any recommended dosages for taking them both together?

Does anyone here know what the source of the Piracetam is: 1. Animal (what type of animal, internal derivative or by-product)? or 2. Vegetable? I want to buy it for someone with specific dietary needs. Thanks in advance.

So if I am taking a good mega b vitamin supplement and eat lots of eggs, do i not need to take this choline stuff? I would hate to add yet another supplement. Just took my first dose of piracetam!!!