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Beyond Muscle Forums > Supplements > Now Green Tea Extract

Posted by: Mass Production Jun 15 2004, 08:25 PM

QUOTE

Green tea has compounds that block COMT. I stopped using as much green tea when I found that they were anti-androgenic. They not only block androgen at the receptor, thay also apear to downregulate androgen receptors.
Green tea is basically an anti-endocrine factor. It seems to reduce the effects of all steroid hormones. I don't mean to freak anybody out, it's just that the flavones (especially epigallocatechin gallate) are well known to reduce the actions of endogenous androgens (and estrogens) as well as even lowering testosterone levels themselves.

Anyway, my point is that, you may never see any significant effect of drinking green tea on muscle gains. Then again, we know that it is having an antagonistic effect, however small, in a direction oposite to what we want with respect to testosterone.

Cultures that consume a lot of green tea of also known to have fewer androgenic "manifestations" both normal (body hair, muscle mass, etc) as well as fewer pathologic manifestations (prostate problems, and other cancers associated with steroid hormones).

Fat is a different story. It clearly helps fat loss by altering catecholamine metabolism and probably a few other things.

The above quote comes from the HST FAQ written by Bryan Haycock.

Does anyone know if Now Green Tea Extract contains any significant amount of the flavones Bryan speaks of?

Thanks very much for any replies.

Posted by: shpongled Jun 16 2004, 02:54 AM

This is covered in my green tea article.

QUOTE

A concern that is commonly brought up about green tea is the idea that it decreases levels of androgens such as testosterone and DHT. One study reported that after administered to rats, EGCG "significantly reduced food intake; body weight; blood levels of testosterone, estradiol, leptin, insulin, insulin-like growth factor I, LH, glucose, cholesterol, and triglyceride" [22]. However, a different study with green tea catechins in rats found decreased body weight but increased thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), LH, and testosterone levels [85]. A final study in mice with green tea indicated drastic increases in both testosterone and DHT from green tea treatment, but levels of both were synergistically inhibited when it was adminstered along with soy phytochemicals [86]. In vitro, EGCG inhibits type I 5AR [2, 87], which is partially responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT (for this reason, it has been proposed in the topical treatment of acne and hair loss [2]), while in rats, green tea is an aromatase inhibitor, which (in theory) would be responsible for an increase in tesotsterone levels [85].

So, how does one make sense of this mess of contadictory data? It should first be noted that 5AR inhibition has only been shown in vitro [87], while it has not been observed in live animals – in fact, drastic increases in DHT have been found - and it seems that other constituents of green tea counteract the 5AR inhibition [88]. The conclusions of the first study, which found drastic decreases in body weight, testosterone, and other hormones, are very misleading. A drastic reduction in levels of all of the substances mentioned can unfortunately be expected from weight loss in any situation (which is one of the reasons losing weight without losing muscle mass is so difficult). Indeed, when the authors of the same study restricted the food intake of the rats to cause a similar weight loss to that induced by EGCG, similar effects were seen, implying that the changes were not due to EGCG but due to drastic body weight loss [22]. The effect green tea has on levels of androgens and other hormones is complex and depends on various factors, but no detrimental effects have as of yet been seen in human populations.

Posted by: Aeternitatis Jun 16 2004, 11:02 AM

You know, it really annoys me when peole extrapolate "facts" from cultural perceptions: "Cultures that consume a lot of green tea of also known to have fewer androgenic "manifestations" both normal (body hair, muscle mass, etc) as well as fewer pathologic manifestations (prostate problems, and other cancers associated with steroid hormones)."

These same cultures are also known for soy consumption, though probably not nearly as much as is often touted by the soy gurus. Maybe the soy is what causes it. But what about all those other peoples who are virtually hairless and don't suffer from prostate problems yet don't drink green tea? You could say something like fried chicken and apple pie lowers testosterone levels because just look at all those fat Americans and all they eat is fried chicken and apple pie.

I think the idea that green tea is anti-androgenic is a possibility. But when I'm in doubt I always turn to Bruce Lee. He drank green tea the guy was in great shape. By no means was he bulky but he was ripped and strong as fuck. I mean c'mon, he could do fifty one-handed pullups. Try to tell him that green tea inhibited his athleticism.

Posted by: Mass Production Jun 16 2004, 03:03 PM

Thanks guys.
I just read Shpongled's green tea article,and after learning what EGCG stands for, I now realize this was a stupid question LOL....... but thanks for the information.