I get headaches if I dont take Choline with my Piracetam. I take 1.2G of piracetam with 700mg of choline TWICE a day for a total of 2.4G of Piracetam and 1.4G of Choline.


Bacopa is a GREAT herb & (nootropic) for lowering your anxiety. I had mild anxiety, especially when talking to people I just met, but my professor in college who is from India recommended Bacopa to me and it works awesome. It also gives me neato dreams and I remember them better in the morning.

Bacopa is dirt cheap and I believe you can find it at Vitamin World.


You can get all the ingrediants found in Neurostim at Vitamin World too. Had Neurostim not printed "proprietary" on their label, I just may have boughten it, but I can make my own personal Neurostim concoction for cheaper :-) Don't expect it to feel like you have this new smarter brain in your head all of a sudden, the effects are mild at best.

Proprietary=evil

Which kind of choline are you talking about?

I noticed that the choline article on here implies lecithin is a better source of choline than others. And it's cheap. Does anyone here use lecithin with piracetam?

Anyone?

i do love piracetam a lot. i am wondering if stacking racetam with Alpha-GPC Powder is better than PS ?

i am a litle confused what is the diff btw Choline Citrate, PS, lechitin, Alpha-GPC,soy ?

Regarding the combo of piracetam and choline I have found that 1.2g of Lecithin with 1500g of piracetam provides the best effect for me personally , also a side note I have also found that too much Lecithin over time seems to build up in my system and give a headache , so I just take the lecithin once a day even if I take the piracetam more than once . Im certian that personal experimentation is best as we are all so different in our responses . Cheers

HELL. man how do u do to stuff ur self with 1500g. 700g is ~$18
$20 a day of piracetam that is dirty heavy .

ive been using piracetam 2-4g /day fo studies after i reached 80 pills of 800mg if began to feel the headache may be to my over Adreal/cortisol usualy hapens when drinking cofee/tea/Ephedrine

Right now I'm taking a supplement of piracetam, choline and ALCAR. This is my fourth day.

First of all I have been astonished by the difference it has made in my guitar playing, I can learn pieces of music effortlessly (by comparisson). There is a new immediacy between the page and my fingers. My mind is a switchboard that reacts to input (musical notation) and then orchestrates an appropriate output on my instrument via my hands. With piracetam I can make those switchboard connections more quickly without any doubt whatsoever.

I have been taking my supplements all in the morning.

4g Piracetam
1g Choline
1g ALCAR

I wake at 8am, and I don't eat until noon usually. Since you are supposed to take supplements on an empty stomache, I have been waiting to eat until my classes let out at noon. I feel that I need to eat sooner in the day though - I seem to be rather tired despite 8 hours of sleep. After I eat I usually feel much more relaxed, awake and focused. I haven't had problems with headache. I've had some acid reflux without food as well.

I'm going to change my protocol to the following.


850mg Piracetam and 700mg Choline (with lecithin and bicalcitrate source)
-Four times a day. I chose this dosing due to measuring convenience.

1g ALCAR, two times a day
-First thing in the morning and lunch.


So my ration of piracetam to choline used to be ~4:1. The research that I've read concerning piracetam and/or choline and the effects of different combinations always uses a 1:1 ratio for piracetam and choline.

"There are also a number of substances reported that may enhance the activity of piracetam. The most well known is choline. The combination of piracetam and choline is reported to be synergistic when used to treat dementia [19], and a study in mice indicates that 50 mg/kg piracetam along with 50 mg/kg choline IP was superior to up to 1000 mg/kg of piracetam alone or up to 200 mg/kg of choline alone [58]. Another study in rats found 100 mg/kg of both piracetam and choline to be superior to 200 mg/kg of either substance [59]. Finally, a study conducted found that when normally ineffective doses of piracetam and citicholine (a nootropic form of choline) were combined, retention was enhanced at both the 24 hour and the 7 day point [60]. Other substances that piracetam has been reported to synergize with include vitamin B6 (for hypoxia), phosphatidylserine (for Alzheimer's treatment), and hydergine [3-4, 61]. James South, MA also hypothesizes that other B vitamins, NADH, lipoic acid, coenzyme Q10 or idebenone, and magnesium may all enhance the activity of piracetam [4]. "
http://www.bulknutrition.com/a86_Brain_Foo...iracetam_I.html

Although I am quoting bulk nutrition's article, I have seen these research abstracts on pubmed as well.

I'll let you know if I notice change.
Nate

Can i combine DMAE with Piracetam?

I would make my own stack before my work out:

DMAE, Piracetam, Choline, Tribulus, No² Supplements.

i think that DMAE break to choline not sure. how mutch.

also wondering from u guys how do u known ur headache are from lower choline level and not from to mutch as i know pira increasse levels of choline and other neurostransmiters

My best conclusion from reading and personal experience:

Piracetam increases the rate of choline cycling (thank you David Tolson). I think the headache may be caused by a problem with the choline cycle.

Check out the graphic on this site for reference below: http://abdellab.sunderland.ac.uk/Lectures/...holinergic.html

Here it is, my brain child...or maybe it's someone elses. Yep, I remember now. I got the idea here. http://www.restoreunity.org/antiaging_b5.htm

If you increase the rate of choline cycling with piracetam, and you increase the amount of choline available then there is only one part left: conversion to actylecholine which requires acetyl-CoA which requires coenzyme A (CoA) which requires pantothenic acid aka vitamin B5. Average daily value of B5 is ~5mg. In a very specific treatment for acne people have taken as much as 20 grams of B5 in a day. Obviously there is some play with the dosage. I take about one gram a day, and I have had great results with piracetam ever since my last post.

I also take a B multivitamin just to make sure that my B's aren't getting out of proportion with the addition of B5.

I'm confused by your response. I think you're explaining why pirac. causes headaches when not taken with choline. How much choline do you think should be taken for a given piracetam dosage? Are you also saying B5 should be taken with pirac? Or are you saying the B5 is a separate issue and you take it for other reasons?

Sorry for the verbiage in my last post.

Personal experience has led me to believe that a 1:2 g ratio of choline to piracetam is good (1 gram choline for 2 grams piracetam).

B5 must be taken with choline. Since an overdose of B5 is not a major concern I take B5 and choline in a 1:1 ratio. If your body doesn't get enough B5 (coenzyme A) then your system will overtaxed; you need coenzyme A for all sorts of chemical reactions in your body. Although your body can actually manufacture B5 when you are critcally low, it won't be able to make enough if your body is trying to convert lots of choline into the form your nerveous system uses.

Bottom line: you will be successful with the following ratio - 2g piracetam : 1g choline : 1g B5 (pantothenic acid).

I would really appreciate some feedback from someone with more chemical/biological knowledge than me. I am just stating what makes sense and has worked for me. I claim no ultimate authority with this advice.

Thanks for the help.

anybody have any sorts of problems/withdrawel after chronic piracetam use was stopped?

I started Piracetam, ALA, and ALCAR at the same time (you can imagine it was very soon after the package arrived at my house!) and I am experiencing a very noticable increase in my ability to "choose my thoughts". I don't seem to get bored with things nearly as fast, and I can read text in a skimming fashion and remember what I am skimming for.

I never figured out which supp was doing what, but I have been hearing a great deal of praise for ALCAR's supposed ability to erase some forms of fatigue. My libido is slowly getting to a very crazy level, I actually considered cutting my dose because it was a little overwhelming.

A little secret: Vit C, ALCAR, and NAC mixes well with kool-aid. Just make sure you get some calium carbonate (this site has it) to buffer the acidity. Trust me, you will want to do this (too sour and very bad for teeth and stomach). Beer and wine making supply shops should carry this too. I sweeten it with a cup of the splenda that you measure like sugar (it's very fluffy). Ideally, I would buffer it with magnesium, calcium AND potassium, but this will do for now. Tastes a little different than kool-aid, but definitalely better than gatorade (in my opinion only!). And I can use less because they get used more effeciently if you drink it throughout the day. So far I feel it more so than when I was only taking it twice a day. It really seems to be making my libido "busier" over time and I forget sometimes to keep it in check! It's disrespectful to the wife.

i ve been using 800mg pira along with 300mg of now PS.+ 40mg of magnesium ion+1g tyrosine and some hydergine FAS

i get realy a very better memory with that stack. and bad hadache that goes aways when droping PS & hydergine.

i ma also cycling B5 one week into gut /the other dermal. to reduce acne. And eating about 300g of tuna/day

Do this means that choline gives headaches ? hydergine alone dont but megadose of PS did.

Now ps also has choline bitrate & inositol

by far the best nootropics is a prescription drug called adderall

I don't think that amphetamines fall in the nootropic category, but hey, maybe someday they will!!

it induce neural death and sides that makes u dont want to use it long time