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> Smart Drugs/Nootropics???, What is the most effective supplement?
Smee
  Posted: Jun 3 2004, 01:57 PM
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I've been reading up on Smart Drugs/Nootropics. What is an effective supplement to enhance focus/mood/concentration? In particular, I'm looking to improve my focus and reaction for athletic performance.

Any input/suggestions?
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Kow
Posted: Jun 3 2004, 04:40 PM
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Piracetam is a good place to start. Be sure to get some source of choline to take as well.


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Ramiro29833
Posted: Jun 4 2004, 12:38 AM
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Hey that herb u first mention sound's like is pretty effective.I'll check it out.\

But I don't really think CHOLINE in any effective.

But pesonally this is what I take and it work's pretty good Omega-3 from fish oil's and Rhodilia Rosea. It clear's my mind up.
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Ramiro29833
Posted: Jun 4 2004, 12:40 AM
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Ramiro29833
Posted: Jun 4 2004, 12:43 AM
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Try it with the Omega-3 it work for me.
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Rezzing
Posted: Jun 4 2004, 08:09 AM
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People rave about phenibut for mood and such, it just sucks that the flavor is so horrendous. Personally I just stick a teaspoon in a cup and add a little bit of water, and just gulp it down real quick.

Another item is chocamine (chocolate type ingredient, not sure if it's sold here yet) and Rhodiola Rosea. Gabatropin is a really good pill, but expensive, and I believe they combine rosea and fenibut.
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Kow
Posted: Jun 4 2004, 02:52 PM
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The reason I say take choline is because piracetam I believe depletes choline stores; the main "felt" effect of this would be really bad headaches.


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shpongled
Posted: Jun 5 2004, 12:05 PM
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Piracetam doesn't deplete choline stores, some people feel that it has negative side effects when taken without choline, but there is no research to support this - piracetam by itself has no negative side effects in any clinical study or animal experiment.

However, it has been found that when choline is supplemented along with piracetam, the effects are synergistic (even though choline alone usually doesn't do much centrally).


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Kow
Posted: Jun 5 2004, 12:26 PM
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I stand corrected. Thanks David. The piracetam depleting choline thing was mostly hearsay, so I guess that's what I get for believing it smile.gif


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bamaster
Posted: Jun 8 2004, 10:33 PM
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I'm looking into Aniracetam instead of Piracetam, allegedly it's more potent, some websites claim 5 - 10 times more so with some additional benefits.

Additionally, I've read a few promising articles on Idebenone, which again allegedly improves cognition and seretonin levels.

ALCAR pops up in most nootropic threads too.

What about this...

Aniracetam/Idebenone/ALCAR

Not sure how much of a stimulant it would be, but I'd like to add one for sports perfomance. I'm a huge fan of Bolt Ephedrine HCl, btw... keeps my eyes on the prize in the gym.

Thanks to any replies.



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rrgg
Posted: Jul 19 2004, 05:35 PM
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Someone suggested taking this with omega-3. Why omega-3?
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trouble
Posted: Jul 19 2004, 07:32 PM
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A little correction...

Choline is the backbone structure for all phospholipids, including those specifically concentrated in the brain. While choline itself doesn't have neurological activity, choline acetyltransferase. Neurotransmitters occur as 4 classes of compounds: monoamines, amino acids, peptides and acetylcholine. They are synthesized, packaged and transported to the terminal of the presynaptic cell. The nerve cell is triggered by an electric potential (movement of ions with a nerve body) at the cell-cell junction (terminal), triggering the release of neurotransmitter into the junction space (synaptic cleft). After diffusion across the synapse, the neurotransmitter activates receptors on the opposing cell junction face (postsynaptic cell) resulting in excitation or inhibition of that cell. The neurotransmitter is inactivated through enzymatic breakdown, re-uptake or by it's diffusion. Synthesis of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine (ACh) and the enzyme which breaks it downs acetylcholinesterase (AChE) are dependend on choline concentration.

And the answer to the question on the neurochemical utility of dietary Omega-3 FA:

3-Omega fats and brain chemistry: Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) is an omega-3 fatty acid. DHA is required for maintenance of normal brain function in adults. The inclusion of DHA in the diet improves learning ability, whereas deficiencies of DHA are associated with deficits in learning. DHA is taken up by the brain in preference to other fatty acids. The turnover of DHA in the brain is very fast, more so than is generally realized.When DHA is used by the body, some of it converts to another essential fatty acid, EPA.1 The two acids have many similarities (both are found in fish oils), but are not identical; ideally, a proper diet contains adequate amounts of both fatty acids.

Other actions: It has been shown to decrease aggressiveness in adolescent males. Others who show DHA deficiencies include Alzheimer’s patients6 and children with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). DHA, when taken in conjunction with EPA, appears to lower blood pressure (control of BP originates within the HPA cascade in the brain). Decreases in DHA in the brain are associated with cognitive decline during aging and with onset of sporadic Alzheimer disease. DHA levels in red blood cells have been correlated with depression in humans. A small study has shown that fish oil can produce striking benefits in bipolar disease, preventing relapse and improving emotional state.

References:

Hamazaki T, Sawazaki S, Itomura M, Asaoka E, et al. The effect of docosahexaenoic acid on aggression in young adults. A placebo-controlled double-blind study. J Clin Invest 1996;97:1129–33.

Stevens LJ, Zentall SS, Deck JL, et al. Essential fatty acid metabolism in boys with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Am J Clin Nutr 1995;62:761–68.

Morris MC, Sacks F, Rosner B. Does fish oil lower blood pressure? A meta-analysis of controlled trials. Circulation 1993;88:523–33.

Horrocks LA; Yeo YK. Health benefits of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Pharmacol Res 1999 Sep;40(3):211-25.

Peet M; Murphy B; Shay J; Horrobin D. Depletion of omega-3 fatty acid levels in red blood cell membranes of depressive patients. Biol Psychiatry 1998 Mar 1;43(5):315-9.

Stoll AL, et al. Omega 3 fatty acids in bipolar disorder: a preliminary double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Arch Gen Psychiatry 56(5): 407–412, 1999.


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Scivation
Posted: Jul 20 2004, 12:04 AM
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I know of a good product....

wink.gif


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UnleashedBeast
Posted: Jul 22 2004, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (Scivation @ Jul 20 2004, 12:04 AM)
I know of a good product....

wink.gif

Yeah, Neurostim looks like it'll be pretty good. How much will it cost here? Got anything else coming out soon Scivation?


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lite12
Posted: Jul 22 2004, 10:08 PM
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I suggest taking a full range of essential oils (including Omega 3 fatty acids). The effects are noticable after 2-3 days of supplementation and help more then just the cognitive facilities. They help with absorbing nutrients efficiently and are necessary for the precursors to several neuroconnectors.

I can't say I've tried the other products. I'll have to do my research and give them a try.

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rrgg
Posted: Aug 26 2004, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE
Piracetam doesn't deplete choline stores, some people feel that it has negative side effects when taken without choline, but there is no research to support this - piracetam by itself has no negative side effects in any clinical study or animal experiment.


I'm interested to know what ratio of choline : piracetam you guys are taking.

Are headaches the possible negative side effects mentioned above, or something else?
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Scivation
Posted: Aug 26 2004, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE (UnleashedBeast @ Jul 22 2004, 09:21 PM)
QUOTE (Scivation @ Jul 20 2004, 12:04 AM)
I know of a good product....

wink.gif

Yeah, Neurostim looks like it'll be pretty good. How much will it cost here? Got anything else coming out soon Scivation?

$32.99 here.

wink.gif


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Dimi
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 01:01 AM
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I’m on Piracetam for 15 years. By nature I’m one of those “beta” types or “daydreamer”. This drug definitely shifts me closer to reality. I’m very healthy and physically active. I note that drug withdrawal slowing down pace of life. Generally the best decisions in my life I’ve made under its influence and nightmares happened without. I must also admit there are site effects for me. During period of excessive training and fat reduced diet with over 1600mg a day I experienced teeth clinching and mumbling speech. Changing to balanced diet reducing cardio activity, taking loads of omega-3 and choline reduced such effect. NO to any drugs, alcohol while on piracetam and careful with supplements. Yes I fly higher then anybody just on normal tobacco and other shit. And I did not get addicted to any of that! But it takes long time to come down. (This could be fun though if you need to be happily stupid weeks after E). I can not tell it made me very smart by looking at those 3 years that took me to understand simple fact that devoted unlimited fitness and supplementation is nothing but escapism from reality, masturbation and self distraction.
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Richerd H.25167
  Posted: Sep 3 2004, 06:41 AM
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What's up with Dat ?
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rrgg
Posted: Sep 3 2004, 07:17 AM
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I think he's still high
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